What hits the fan

Apparently, RMS did it again. What strucks me in all the recent discussions around RMS, Linus and GNOME is people who believe that RMS is right because of what he has done in the past. Just how much difficult is it to understand that it matters what a person says and not who the person is?

I still remember him sitting in our office in March 2008 with a childish sour face because the name of the company contained a “Linux”, but not a “GNU”. Sure, we all have our funny ways, but sometimes things you do grow big and become politics. And if you can’t handle politics, it’s better not to pretend you can get away with funny.

  • http://freegital.de mray

    I think it does not matter what a person says, but what a person does.
    And as far as I can tell Linus gave us some fancy tools.
    RMS gave us freedom.
    If I cared about the first I would probably prefer all Adobe Products above GIMP, Inkscape, Scribus, …

    And btw: he has valid arguments against the missing acronym every time Linux is mentioned.

  • http://www.prokoudine.info Alexandre

    I think it does not matter what a person says, but what a person does.

    So, RMS says one thing and does another? It’s an interesting observation :)

    Generally he just goes on people’s nerves, ordering around ;) Does it matter? ;)

    And as far as I can tell Linus gave us some fancy tools.

    Um, I’m kind of using Linux at work and home. Just fancy tools, eh? :)

    RMS gave us freedom.

    Eh, no. It wasn’t him who gave me my freedom? I do believe he has nothing to do with my freedom. The GPL — now that’s a different thing.

    And btw: he has valid arguments against the missing acronym every time Linux is mentioned.

    I couldn’t care less about arguments that boil down to “Because I say so”. Really.

  • http://freegital.de mray

    RMS practices what he preaches – I guess that’s part of the reason why he is considered to be annoying at times. I admire this capability to stick to his values at any price! I don’t see the point where he does not stick to what he says.
    There are often people that get on other peoples nerves – if you don’t care about them, just ignore them and the “annoyance” they produce.

    He also does not order people around: he has no power to do so. He says what he thinks is right! And he encourages people to do so – RMS only has the power to “order” things is through the GPL and maybe within the FSF afaik.

    You may use Linux at work and at home – but you could argue that you use GNU/Linux at work and at home ;)

    If you don’t want to accept that RMS gives you freedom, but the GPL does it must be at least said that RMS was at least as much involved in it as Linus in his Kernel.

    There are unchallenged facts that RMS bases his claim on calling the OS “GNU/*whaveverkernel*” – i know it is impractical and it seems a bit awkward but the arguments are valid.
    When arguments boil down to “Because I say so” you are right to discard them. But then you could also argue that RMS just “invented” some four basic freedoms all by his own just to order people around – and that’s where I strongly disagree; His definition of what free software means makes sense to me – and in that sense he uses the sentences with no less “egoism” as the founding fathers would talk about their declaration of independence if asked for “arguments”.
    RMS is one kind of people that clearly back up what they say and what they do by the values they represent. If you don’t agree with those values there is no problem – but you have to admitt he does not just “says what he wants”.

    I see why RMS is so controversial, but I think it is wrong to judge him just based on his social behavior. Yes he may seem hardcore, but that doesn’t turn his causes into false causes.

    I see him a bit as “the one politician that goes to climate conference without any plane or car”. I certainly couldn’t do that and certainly don’t expect others to do that, but he is doing the right thing. RMS fights for what he thinks is right very strongly – and I think everybody benefits from it.
    People often think that he has the function to represent free software and has the role of a pr-manager, but he could not care less about market share or adoption rates; what he cares about is software freedom.

  • http://www.prokoudine.info Alexandre

    He also does not order people around… And he encourages people…

    I think you could really go back to basic grammar rules and check the bit on modal verbs. The “should” one (if you actually read the mailing list in question) given the context of the person is not quite encouraging. Rather the opposite.

    I see why RMS is so controversial, but I think it is wrong to judge him just based on his social behavior. Yes he may seem hardcore, but that doesn’t turn his causes into false causes.

    Well, I think I have to make it clear: I don’t judge RMS. I rather disagree with his ways of dealing with reality. AND what he says doesn’t necessarily have to be right just because you think that I judge him by his social behavior :)

    People often think that he has the function to represent free software and has the role of a pr-manager

    That’s not what I think, so I don’t quite understand why you are telling me this :)

  • http://freegital.de mray

    @”should”:
    I just don’t see this: “…they certainly shouldn’t promote them…” as an order. (also not in the bigger context)

    @judging:
    You speak of his “funny ways” (wich he certainly has :P ) in a connection with the inability to cope with serious issues. One should separate the two issues and acknowldege that he is pretty capapble of handling politics; I think he has proven that his activities do have an impact. In fact things have not even “grown big”, because the initial impulse to start the free software movement was a political one right from the start.

    @pr-manager:
    people often talk about his “funny ways” proposing he should shut up and see what bad influence his behavior has on the public image of free software. But he is not detached from the political aspects of his activities. I just think he can handle politics very well. (not speaking of the ways)
    So to speak: he has no reason to please people with his appearance or social behaviour like he probably WOULD have to if he was a pr-manager.

    Hence my opinion on your original blogpost: I think he is right not only because of what he _did_ but what he is doing and saying now. The things he says and the things he is doing also match perfectly. – and all this has nothing to do with his funny ways.

  • Reynir

    I don’t use GNU/Linux. I don’t use BSD/X/GNU/Linux. I use Linux.

    Wonder what would happen if MS released Win98, a C compiler and the other needed ancillaries as FOSS and then asked people to name their spawn MS/$whatever.

  • http://www.prokoudine.info Alexandre

    I just don’t see this: “…they certainly shouldn’t promote them…” as an order. (also not in the bigger context)

    Fine with me. Don’t see it as that, or don’t read the whole thread either. Suits me well.

    people often talk about his “funny ways” proposing he should shut up

    Why do I have to repeat over and over again that I don’t bloody care about so called “people” and what they “often” do?

    We are not going anywhere with this discussion. You stay with your perception and I stay with mine. Thank you.

    @Reynir

    Would someone even touch Win98 with a 6ft stick?